Ego to Oneness, Confronting the Climate Crisis (EP 278)

Host: Welcome to Connecting with Coincidence with psychiatrist Bernard Beitman, MD. Dr. Beitman is the founder of the Coincidence Project. The project encourages people like you to tell each other coincidence stories. To learn more about Dr. Beitman's work, put Connecting with Coincidence in your web browser. You'll find his book, his Psychology Today blog, and the interviews from this podcast. And now your host, Bernard Beitman, MD.

Bernard Beitman: Welcome to Connecting with Coincidence. I am Bernard Beitman. I'm a psychiatrist. I study meaningful coincidences. My book called Meaningful Coincidences: How Synchronicity and Serendipity Happen is available at a link for those of you on YouTube below. We're talking about something that psychiatry doesn't address quite now, but we got a problem here on Earth, ladies and gentlemen, and it tends to be denied. People don't want to pay attention to it, a lot of different ways of avoiding it. And we are here to say the evidence is really strong. We are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction of life on our planet. A mass extinction is a short period of geological time in which a high percentage of biodiversity—distinct species, bacteria, fungi, plants, mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, invertebrates, and vertebrates like us—die out. And in geological time, a short period of time can be thousands or even millions of years. The planet has experienced five previous mass extinctions, the last one occurring 66.5 million years ago, which wiped out the dinosaurs, as everybody kind of remembers. Experts now believe we are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction. Unlike previous mass extinctions caused by natural phenomena, this sixth one is driven by us—by human activity. Primarily, though not limited to the unsustainable use of land, water, and energy use, and the resulting climate change.

We have two very smart guys here who are coming at this question in different ways, and it's the first time they're ever talking with each other, but they got their hearts in common, and their minds are really good, as many of you know who know each one of these. First is Chris Bache, I'll introduce, and then Dan Siegel. Chris is a professor emeritus in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. Key thing about Chris, besides The Living Classroom, was where I got introduced to him, and the connection between minds of the students and his were very remarkable. Also, Chris has the distinction of having taken LSD, I think, 73 times under controlled conditions, high doses, and explored consciousness. He's come away with some ideas about how to mitigate or what's going to happen with this mass extinction we are now facing. Dan Siegel is a clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA School of Medicine and founding director and co-director of the Mindfulness Awareness Research Center at UCLA. He is executive director of the Mindsight Institute, which focuses on the development of mindset, teaches insight, empathy, and integration. His latest book, IntraConnected, is just about how this whole thing we are in is interconnected, including you and I, and what we are. They together, kind of thing we are in—all of us. And because each of these men comes from somewhat different perspectives, but again, for me, their hearts and minds have some overlap, I've asked them to join me with a discussion about their views about what is coming for humanity and what we might be able to do about that. So we'll start off with each of them saying something about their answer to this question, and then the dialogue will begin between the two of them. So Chris, let's start with you, and then we'll go to Dan.

Chris Bache: Well, I was hoping you were going to start with Dan first.

Bernard Beitman: We can start with Dan first. Okay, Dan, you're on.

Dan Siegel: Okay, well, whatever sequence works, probably relates in some ways to part of what I'll talk about. My background is I trained as a scientist, then as a physician, and then as a mental health practitioner—as a psychiatrist—and then working as a researcher in the area of relationships and the development of the self, and then becoming more of an educator, really teaching people in different realms the work of mental health, of education, of parenting, of policy and government, organizational functioning, things like that. Then I worked, starting around 30 years ago, to bring different sciences together into one framework that E.O. Wilson later would apply the term consilience. So initially, it was all the different scientific disciplines, everything from math and physics up to sociology and anthropology and everything in between. But then it opened up this field of interpersonal neurobiology to invite all ways of knowing. So religious studies, spiritual practices, contemplative practices, indigenous knowledge, looking at poetry, at music, at art, dance. So any pursuit of exploration of truth is invited into the conversation.

We now have 80 textbooks in the Norton series that I founded, and the focus is on reality. But one aspect of reality we look at is the human mind, and we see the mind as broader than the brain. Unlike how Bernie, you and I were trained in psychiatry and in medicine since the time of Hippocrates, 2500 years ago, where the mind was thought of as a synonym for brain activity. William James, the grandfather of modern psychology, kind of reaffirmed that in 1890. In interpersonal neurobiology, we say, well, that's true, but not the whole story. The brain is really important, but it's actually broader than the brain, this thing called the mind, and in fact, it's bigger than the body. So in these last 30 years, there's been a fascinating journey to look at what the mind is from the perspective of what the proposal is. It's an emergent property of energy flow that is arising both within the individual and in the relationality of the individual with other people and with nature, so people on the planet. In that sense, the mind has features such as subjective experience, it has consciousness, it has information processing. But a fourth facet of the mind is the emergent property that's been assessed by the mathematics of complex systems studied in the 1980s, so pretty recently. It's the emergent property, meaning the interaction of elements of the system gives rise to something larger than the elements themselves. We see all these properties as emergent, but one of them, this fourth property, is the self-organizing emergent property of a complex system. We see it as the system being embodied and relational energy flow. This self-organizing process optimizes its unfolding through a process of differentiating and linking. When optimal self-organization happens, this, what we'll call integration, this balance of differentiation, linkage, it leads to a kind of flow that has five qualities that feel with the texture of harmony, and those are flexibility (F), adaptability (A), coherence (which is holding together well over time) (C), being energized with a sense of vitality (E), and stable (meaning reliable). This FACES flow is a way you would describe basically optimal self-organization. The proposal from 30 years ago was that that was the basis of well-being, and that when there's deviation from integration, this integrative self-organizing process toward harmony, you get to either chaos or rigidity.

In terms of the question of human life and individuals' life, you can look at, for example, attachment relationships, and see that when they're integrative, the integrated sharing—the honoring of differences and promoting of compassionate linkages within a parent-child relationship—actually is a relational flow of energy and information that is integrated, that stimulates the growth of integration in the child's nervous system. So, in the textbook The Developing Mind, I wrote now in its third edition, there's repeated support in the empirical scientific literature that integration is the basis of well-being. Smith and colleagues in 2015 showed that every measure of well-being you could find is predicted by basically how interconnected something called the connectome is. Similarly, in psychiatric disorders, anyone with mental suffering can be revealed as chaos or rigidity. Every study ever done of the brains of individuals with psychiatric disorders shows impaired integration. Positive interventions like compassion training and mindfulness training lead to increased growth in integration in the brain in the ways that studies, for example, of trauma, show that integration is impaired in children who are abused or neglected. So all that being said, integration, then, is seen as the base of well-being. In terms of this question of what's happening on the planet, these many pandemics we face, including the pandemic of loss of biodiversity known as this mass extinction, there are others, like racism and social injustice, the COVID-19 virus, polarization and misinformation, the pandemic of loneliness in modern culture, and the addiction we have to screens. Climate disaster—all of those are examples of chaos and rigidity. I'll have you consider that they might be worsened or even caused by what we'll call the solo self—a view of this center of experience as existing only inside the individual, or individuals like them. So the heart of these pandemics, including extinction, might be this solo self. If that's true, as you point out, this condition of extinction looks like it's due to what the human species is doing. So the proposal in the book IntraConnected is the integration of self, identity, and belonging as we + me as we, identity, and belonging. You can find a way to see how the self develops in the individual and in modern culture. That's what I do in the book—through a lifespan examination of how self is defined as a center of experience that includes subjective experience, perspective, and agency—SPA. This scientific view of how the self develops as separate in modern culture fits with the invitation from contemplative practices from 1000s of years and indigenous wisdom from 1000s of years. Here on this unceded land of the Tongva and the Chumash in Southern California where I am, the teachings were always about humans being part of nature. But in modern culture, there's a drive to go from that verb-like fluid, intra-connected meaning we're connected within a whole, not just interconnected where I'm connected to you, and that's the inter, the between. That's where the word intra connected is useful. We speak from the subjective experience, perspective, and agency of the whole—W, H, O, L, E—the whole of reality. In doing that, what you see is indigenous teachings have invited this, contemplative practices have invited it, and this discussion in the book is really just saying, can science join with those ancient invitations?

Can we see how the human mind's drive for certainty makes us view identity as an entity, a noun-like thing, rather than embracing uncertainty and opening to the verb-like reality of a more fluid identity and a belonging that is universal? The hope is realistic idealism, optimistic but saying we can construct a self that is intra-connected as we—and that can lead to actions for the greater good. As if you had stubbed your own toe of your body, you take care of your toe. We would see the whole living world as who we are. That's, in a nutshell, the notion and how it fits in with this discussion.

Bernard Beitman: Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Chris, comments, questions?

Chris Bache: Dan, that really was beautiful. That was beautifully summarized. I just really love the unfolding of layers and layers of your research, the way you harness many people's research and bring that into focus. I'm sitting here, without any of the scientific background, in total agreement with what you're saying. Just being over and over, from my side of the experience, everything you're saying makes perfectly good sense—the balance of integration of individual and larger fields within which we are contextualized and the ways in which we push against the limits at different times and where we're being pushed now. I find it fascinating. I feel so completely aligned with what you're saying, and yet I come to that from a different story, a different path. Not primarily a theory-based or research-heavy story, but an experiential journey. My psychedelic journey is purely experiential, so in different ways, I experience the rupturing of that core self you talk about, and then the unfolding into a larger dynamic field of consciousness, repeatedly, systematically. In those experiences, that field consciousness itself dissolves, like the small collective self dissolves into yet another deeper level of field consciousness.

I often wish I had a Ph.D. in physics or astronomy to better understand many of the things I was shown and taken into, but it was just an educated layman's dissolving into the field of consciousness. Within fields of consciousness and acquiring insights or being given teachings about how those fields self-organize, how they work. The Living Classroom, Bernie, you mentioned that book, which was basically my attempt to understand the fields of consciousness connecting my students and my courses, and me as kind of the spark plug within it, and the ways in which my spiritual journey was impacting them through these mysterious channels of inner communication. That entire book was downloaded in 10 minutes in one session. I had been pondering the riddle for a long time, but it just came through clear in 10 minutes. It took years to open it up and do the research for it. Out of such a different itinerary—I've been a professor of religious studies, teaching intro world religion courses, Eastern religions, Buddhism, Psychology of Religion, Transpersonal Studies, and outside of this academic frame, the experiential journey I undertook, starting in '79 going to '99, led me to experiences that are much in harmony with what you're describing. Dan, your way of understanding the larger patterns of organization that come up from underneath.

I don't know that I have much to offer in the way of ameliorating this extinction crisis we've entered. I have, from these experiences, a certain historical framework that I use, that has been given to me to understand what's happening, a certain conviction that we do make it through this crisis, that it doesn't end up becoming an extinction event, that we do make it through this crisis of consciousness. And again, I offer that purely on an experiential basis, not on an academic basis, not on a scientific basis, but simply because in these deep states of consciousness, time can be penetrated. Trans-temporal states of consciousness emerge in all contemplative and spiritual traditions, and they can be harnessed in a way and penetrated in sustained psychedelic practice. Part of my story is having experienced the crisis, the death-and-rebirth crisis of humanity from the future, not from the present going forward, but that, but also simultaneously from the future as something that has already happened. That doesn't make sense, of course, within linear time, but within psychedelic worlds, that becomes possible.

Bernard Beitman: It definitely becomes possible, and it's understandable, and the fluidity of time is becoming a kind of common discussion. The thing about precognition is one way to get into it. Dan, you were going to say something, I think?

Dan Siegel: Well, I mean, no, I think it's beautiful, Chris, and thank you, and Bernie, thanks for having us on. There's so much richness in what you're talking about, Chris, and in doing this consilience strategy where you have an open mind about realizing there are many ways of knowing. The teachings from indigenous cultures, some of whom use plant medicines to open their consciousness for 1000s of years, have insights into the way systems function that sees the patterns and patterns of the patterns, as Gregory Bateson would talk about. Looking at these 1000s of year-old traditions, one fascinating thing is from independent cultures that never communicated with each other, they came up with the same conclusions—that's just fascinating. The second thing is that you have contemplative practices, also 1000s of years old, that in their independent ways, have come up with the same exact conclusions. The systems nature of our deep intra-connected nature. Then you have to ask, from a scientific point of view, where you're always challenging your assumptions and hypotheses and doubting everything—you can kind of drive you a little mad, but it's a good practice. Adam Grant has a great book called "Think Again" about inviting you how to do that. In science, we do that. From a scientific point of view, we would say, wow, indigenous wisdom is very much consilient with systems science and contemplative practices very much consilient with systems science. But then you realize that in much of what we do in modern culture and modern education, there's linear thinking about A leads to B, leads to C. You focus deeply on the details, some of which are incredibly useful. Like there's a virus killing people, let's look at its particular molecules. Let's make an antibody, and let's make it so we can have RNA that matches it in some way. Let's make a vaccine. So now we have a vaccination based on RNA that we discovered because we were linear thinkers. We need to embrace linear thinking.

However, there's another way to think in systems terms. The practice I call the wheel of awareness, where you take the concept of integration and the notion that consciousness is needed for change, and then you bring those two consilient notions. Integration is well-being; consciousness is needed for change, and then you integrate consciousness. I did this with my patients, my students, and they were doing it with their patients. People started getting better, so I started doing the workshops before the viral pandemic hit. My assistant counted this up. I did this with 50,000 people in person, 50,000, and I would get the responses. When they were in the practice, you distinguish the hub of this metaphoric wheel as pure awareness. There's the knowing of consciousness, like if I say hello, you have both the hello and the knowing I said hello. So we put the knowing in the hub. We put the known, the sound of hello, on the rim. People do the practice, and you can do it from my website for free. When people bend the spoke of attention into the hub as part of the practice, the common statements are; oh my God, I'm connected in a way I've never felt connected. My sense of a separate self dissolves. Time disappears. Love is there. God, I'm with the universe. There's just this eternity and infinity. This kind of thing, over and over again.

Even people who you might say, well, it's a selected group of 50,000 people wanted to hear, I've had people dragged there who didn't even want to be there, or people in—I’ve done it at parliaments where people did not want to be at this workshop, and they were forced by their government to do it. Or their spouses brought them, and they had the same experience. They could be never having meditated before or running monasteries, and they have the same experience. What you'll see in the book Aware, or Mind, or the book IntraConnected, is a question: why is it on the rim people feel locked into time, but in the hub, it's timeless? I did a deep search. I happened to be teaching with about 150 physicists at this meeting one week, so I asked them, what's energy, and what's time? This is a controversial thing to say—anything in science is controversial, but for some of the physicists, just to quote some of them, there are two realms, and this was on the cover of Scientific American in July of 2018, the month before my book Aware came out. I was so relieved because I thought people would think I'm nuts, as Aware was all about these two realms. But according to these physicists, there is the large object world that Newton studied 350 years ago, macro states, large objects. There's something called the second law of thermodynamics, and that law says that as things unfold, they tend to fall into entropy, fall toward randomness; they fall apart. That law only applies to the Newtonian macro state world. A hundred years ago, the capacity in technology to study small things like electrons and photons led to the realization that the microstate realm didn't have that property of the second law of thermodynamics, and it's that awareness that things are moving with what's called an arrow of time, which we probably name as time. It has a feeling of linearity in the Newtonian macro state realm. Just like you can walk on land and swim in the water, different realm, one reality, two realms, water and land.

The same thing is true. Physicists tell us there is a microstate realm where, because the second law of thermodynamics doesn't apply, there is no arrow of time. There's no need in the equations that are super accurate about probability in the microstate realm; there's no need for a time variable. It's timeless. I went to the physicists, and I said, if I draw it out like this, does this work? They said, that's what it would be if you drew it out. So I said, okay, well then, the mind matches onto this. For these 50,000 people, it seems to match where pure awareness, you're dropping into the quantum realm, where it's timeless. In that sense, whether you talk about being able to go to the past, future, or present, it becomes meaningless, and self and other start to shift because the experience in the quantum realm is verb-like unfoldings that are massively connected with one another. The Nobel Prize was given in 2022 for entanglement being proven, meaning it's non-locality that in the quantum realm, there's the experience in the Newtonian realm of separation and time and space doesn't exist. There, things are massively connected, especially across space, which doesn't impede relational connections. I say all that because I've been writing about this. I've had neuroscientists chase me down hallways after lectures I give, saying, stop talking like that. Stop talking like that. I said, well, what? They said, why would you talk about quantum physics and the mind? I said, well, if the mind is an emergent property of energy, and the physicists who study energy more than anyone else tell us there are two realms, then I'm just saying it's a possibility that these realms explain things like psychedelic use, that you drop out of the Newtonian thing. When people heard this, they had me go to Newton's house in England, where the original apple tree is there, and we did the wheel of awareness around the apple tree. They made a documentary film of it. It's hilarious. We paid our homage to Newton. Because I say, when you leave this workshop, get in your Newtonian body, get in your Newtonian car. When you see a red light, press on the Newtonian brakes and stop your car in time because if you don't, you'll become one with everything in the intersection. There's a relativistic world where you're in a body, and there's the universal, as contemplative teachers like Thich Nhat Hanh would say. So this, just as a scientific adding to the discussion, doesn't take the place of saying there are these two realms. When people do the wheel of awareness and get the mystical experience of scale, they get the same ratings as if they were on psilocybin.

Bernard Beitman: Dan, I love hearing you riff, man. That’s just beautiful. Everything you're doing and putting together is just beautiful.

Chris Bache: Dan, I love hearing you riff, man. I mean, that's just beautiful. Everything you're you're doing and putting together is just beautiful.

Bernard Beitman: Riff is right, that's a good word for it. It just needs a little music, which his son could provide.

Dan Siegel: And AlexSiegel.com, an album yesterday.

Bernard Beitman: Oh, really? His son's a musician. Now, I'm gonna do it down to somewhere, but in that traffic jam at the red light, about to step on the brake and bring us to Chris's classroom, where I've really first got introduced to Chris and try there to talk about intra-connection and experiences Chris had in that classroom, which was my introduction to how—another introduction to how it's happening right now, not just between two people or not a psychedelic out into the mystery, but Chris would be somehow all doing his own riffing about something as a teacher, and students would come up to him afterward to say, you have just answered a problem that I have been dealing with psychologically, and how that began to be, what I thought now is what you're talking about, about intra-connection, that it's one we there. It's one mind of some kind in that classroom, something, in your terms, quantum begins to happen, where Chris is intuitively, subconsciously coming up with something students need without knowing that he's doing it.

Chris Bache: It's one of the reasons I'm so comfortable with what you're saying, Dan, because it's coherent with my experience in the classroom—this growing understanding of the porosity of mind, the field nature of our individual and collective consciousness. When individuals come together and focus their intention, they create a field. Classes develop fields over decades that get stronger and stronger. Morphic genetic fields grow as more students study around a particular teacher. This field becomes stronger, and what happened for me, completely against my will and without my guidance, was that I started filling in blanks in my lectures. Opportunities arose to explain a principle with examples that just came out of my imagination. Students began coming up to me saying, "This is exactly what happened to me this week," or "This is exactly what happened to my mother." This kept happening over and over. At first, I thought, "Oh, okay, chance," but it kept happening so much.

Over time, as my spiritual practice deepened—specifically my psychedelic practice, though it's not merely about that—it became about spiritual practice. As it deepened, my access to my students’ minds deepened and seemed to zero in on places where they were hurt, or wounded, or blocked until they reached the next stage of their life. Being in the classroom while I was opening up to these intense, pure states of awareness, things began to cascade around me.

I developed what I call, metaphorically speaking, "quantum teaching"—teaching within the reality of fields, recognizing that my mind influences my students' minds even before the class begins. Taking responsibility for this mind-to-mind field effect, especially when carrying the kind of energy that flows from intense spiritual practice, was essential. Juanita Brown's work in café conversations helped me understand how to catalyze and harness this collective energy, distilling it in conversations and in written form.

In "The Living Classroom," I don't talk about psychedelics. The backstory is my private psychedelic practice impacted my students. One-third of the book comprises student essays, things they shared with me. I didn’t want psychedelics to distract grammar school, high school, and college teachers from the broader matters of consciousness, mind, and a quantum understanding of human potential. This understanding does not negate the atomic truth or the reality of the individual mind.

Bernard Beitman: What I hear, Chris, and wonder about with Dan, is that in the classroom, your consciousness seems to form a unit of togetherness with others that's intra-connected. We share a responsibility in this group mind for how our thoughts and emotions affect the field. There's a responsibility to understand what we want to happen.

Dan Siegel: That's beautiful. Chris, it's great to hear this. Some use phrases like "relational sensing" or "relational fields." Peter Senge and a group at MIT work to study these things in classrooms, talking about generative social fields. We chose several teachers who create such fields, brought them together, and asked directly what they were doing. Everyone feels it when they enter these rooms, but teachers often can’t articulate it. So we make films and study them because they can't break it down themselves.

When Michael Faraday proposed electromagnetic fields you couldn’t see, people thought he was nuts. But now all electronics are based on these invisible fields. My friend John O'Donohue, who called himself a mystic, described mystics as those who believe in the reality of the invisible. He didn’t have a science background, but interacting with him taught me that true science acknowledges that not everything real is visible.

Our work at MIT explores whether relational fields are just the feelings between individuals or actual fields, though we don't have definitive answers yet. Recently, I was in the Grand Canyon, thinking about geological time and the interconnectedness of events. Some people notice they get communications about relatives far away that coincide with actual events—an idea possibly explained by quantum entanglement, where minds in a relationship are part of a non-local process. This concept, confirming that spatial separation doesn’t alter relationality, challenges Einstein's spatial notions.

Michael Pollan, in his book on psychedelics, suggested these phenomena might relate to quantum ideas. Karen O'Brien's book on social change also explores applying quantum physics findings to social change. These ideas give a way to honor linear thinking while also calling for a quantum change in consciousness as Joanna Macy describes—the great turning away from the Sixth Extinction's unraveling.

This requires leaving behind the limited, solo self-view leading to unsatisfying material pursuits that harm the planet. We need this quantum consciousness evolution—a shift from the solo self to we, where there’s a me and a relational we. This isn't about discarding individuality but integrating it, benefitting us all by moving toward the great turning.

Bernard Beitman: The awareness of meaningful coincidences shows that mind and environment are connected, dissolving the belief in a separate self. What remains is our interconnectedness—the love around us made evident by coincidences. Experiencing this becomes a reminder of our unity, which Dan and Chris emphasize as crucial in recognizing our interconnectedness, helping us to find and experience love in its multifaceted forms.

Dan, would you elaborate on the difference between intra-connected and interconnected?

Dan Siegel: The term "intra-connected" emerged when I was with a systems science group exploring our experiential sense of systems. During a solo retreat in nature, I felt like I was part of the forest—not just connected but within it. Upon return, I found no word like "intra-connected" existed. Interconnected means connections between separate entities, but intra-connectedness means experiencing oneself as part of the whole.

Interconnection suggests a relationship between us, but intra-connectedness is about speaking on behalf of the whole, a missing term in many languages. The modern culture’s notion of a separate self is a cultural illusion—a cultural splinter. Individual roles can evolve cultural beliefs about selfhood. Just as Margaret Mead said, small groups can change the world. Grounding in indigenous wisdom and scientific insights, we can take steps that cultural evolution requires. The challenge is not whether we can change, for we can. The real issue is, will we? Cultural evolution happens individually, one conversation at a time.

Chris Bache: Beautifully put, Dan. This echoes the spiritual traditions' ancient messages, now joined by scientific voices. The finite self is limited, but the contextual self, as understood by Buddha, reveals no self as separate. To experience this interconnected wholeness—where life's boundaries dissolve into greater harmony—is to establish a foundation for a transformative culture. This is where our collective history and former lives intertwine, compressing into a higher quantum entanglement. As we face ecological crises, this transition isn't just necessary; it's about actualizing our divine potential and creating an inclusive human identity. I resonate deeply with your insights, Dan, and appreciate how they align with this vision of individual transparency and collective wholeness, which I call the "Diamond Soul."

Bernard Beitman: Yes, I'm always looking for the next dance step. Facilitating the recognition and experience of being part of something greater is key. We are not just individual selves but part of a whole—family, groups, the planet. This has been an enriching conversation, reminding us of the oscillation between self and environment. This is our mission, in our unique ways, to help others move beyond singular identity. Thank you both for this vibrant discussion and for clarifying the need for a broader, integrated self-awareness.

Dan Siegel: It's wonderful to be here with you, Chris and Bernie. This moment in human evolution calls for cultural evolution, in which every individual can take part—inner and inter, resulting in intra-connectedness. This notion—me plus we—is crucial. Cultural evolution relies on individual participation, one conversation at a time. Margaret Mead's insight about small groups changing the world is relevant today. With indigenous wisdom, contemplative teachings, and scientific insights, we have the capacity to evolve rapidly. The question remains: will we?

Bernard Beitman: We will, because we have to. Keeping future generations in mind is a strong drive for this change.

Chris Bache: Beautiful, Dan. It’s an honor to be part of this dialogue and to contribute to a vision where our singular self evolves into an integrated, inclusive identity.

Chris Bache: Dan, I would just underscore everything you just said and put my initials right beside it because I certainly believe everything you've said. One of the things that was shown to me along the way, you talked about fields and quantum fields. Part of my experience was that the intensity of the global crisis we're coming into will hyper-stimulate not only our individual fields but the collective field of humanity. It's going to drive it into nonlinear conditions. We know something about how physical fields behave in nonlinear conditions from chaos theory. Now, if we make the assumption that the psychic field of humanity under nonlinear behavior, far-from-equilibrium conditions, will have some of those same qualities, then we have a way of looking at emergence coming out of the depths of the human psyche. The emergence of new forms, crystallizations that weren't even available previously, but represent an actualization of latent capacities within human nature. So that feels deeply aligned with what you're talking about, and it helps us understand how we can make as big a change as we need to make in as short a time as we have. Because in the instability of when we come to trigger points or bifurcation systems, they are very susceptible to small perturbations, so the influence of individuals increases the more we move into a period of crisis. That gives added weight to each one of our effects on the outcome. And I just really support what you're saying.

Bernard Beitman: Yeah, that's really good, really good. So hopefully those listening to this and watching us will join us in trying to facilitate the intraconnection that's also interconnected and about us individually. Thank you both for joining me today. It's been a great discussion.

Chris Bache: Thank you, Bernie. Thank you for getting us together.

Dan Siegel: Thank you, Bernie. Thank you, Chris. Great to be with you all. It's an exciting moment, and we can do this.

Panelist: Is our mental atmosphere like a hologram of cosmic consciousness?