--- title: The Role of Psychedelics for a Planet in Transition — with Belinda Eriacho and Chris Bache slug: 2023-03-15-the-role-of-psychedelics-for-a-planet-in-transition-with-belinda-eriacho date: 2023-03-15 type: interview channel: Spirit Plant Medicine language: en license: CC0-1.0 identifiers: wikidata_person: Q112496741 openalex_person: A5045900737 people: - name: Christopher M. Bache wikidata: Q112496741 openalex: A5045900737 provenance: source: "otter+diarist->normalization" diarist_txt: /Users/howardrhee/Documents/chris-bache-archive/sources/diarist/2023-03-15-the-role-of-psychedelics-for-a-planet-in-transition-with-belinda-eriacho.txt diarist_srt: /Users/howardrhee/Documents/chris-bache-archive/sources/diarist/2023-03-15-the-role-of-psychedelics-for-a-planet-in-transition-with-belinda-eriacho.srt diarist_sha1: ee6e116cbbbac0d623adf3756ace0bf6d0ea4834 --- **Host: ** Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of Spirit Plant Medicine Presents. My name is Marc Caron. I'm happy to share that today we're having a great conversation with a fantastic group of guests regarding Stephen Gray's new book, *How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World*. Today, we're going to answer the question: what is the role of psychedelics for a planet in transition? Our first guest I'll introduce is my friend and cohort in the spirit plant medicine space, Mr. Stephen Gray. Stephen has been traveling a spiritual and medicine path for over 50 years. He's a writer, educator, conference organizer, speaker, and facilitator for cannabis ceremonies. Stephen is the author of three books, including the popular *Cannabis and Spirituality: An Explorer's Guide to the Ancient Plant Spirit Allies*, and as I just mentioned, *How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World: Visionary and Indigenous Voices Speak Out*. Stephen, always a pleasure to see you. **Stephen Gray: ** Thanks, Marc. Yeah, looking forward to our conversation today. We also have joining us Belinda Eriacho. I hope I pronounced your last name right. She's of Diné, Navajo, and Ashiwi of the Pebble Pueblo Zuni descent. Her maternal clan is the One Who Walks Around, and she was born for the Zuni Pueblo people. Belinda was born and raised on the Navajo reservation located in Arizona, in the United States. She's a wisdom carrier, healer, and founder of Kalaji, focusing on culture and traditional teachings that impact topics like Native American communities. She holds degrees in public health and technology. Belinda, nice to see you. **Belinda Eriacho: ** Great to see you, awesome. **Host: ** And of course, we have Chris Bache. Chris is a professor emeritus in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University, where he's taught for 33 years. He's also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. He's an award-winning teacher whose work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness. Chris has written a number of books, and his most recent is *LSD and the Mind of the Universe*. Welcome, Chris. How are you? **Chris Bache: ** I'm great. Welcome, everybody. It's a real honor to be here with you today. **Host: ** Yeah, likewise, it's always a pleasure to connect and learn from you folks. This work has really been a passion of learning for me, and the things that I've gleaned from all the talks over the conferences across the years have really made a difference in my life. It's exciting to be able to share that with people around the world. So thank you for taking the time to join us here. We're going to get started, and I'm going to start with Steve. Basically, what we're going to do today is I'll ask a question of our panel, and each will answer for about five minutes. We're focusing on the book *How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World*, so I'm going to start with Stephen Gray, since he put this work together. The question is: In your view, Mr. Stephen Gray, what is the role of psychedelics for a planet in transition? **Stephen Gray: ** Oh, thanks, Marc. Thanks for the intro and the lead-in. And just a quick clarification, although you implied it, I am merely the editor and one of the contributors to both the previous cannabis book and this one. This time, there are 25 contributors. I just wrote the intro and the outro, as it were, and a couple of short pieces. So that's my role—just wanted to clarify that. The rest of it was cat herding for the other people involved, but I’m delighted with the results. They're all remarkable people. So, what could I say about the role of psychedelics for a planet in transition? They are not silver bullets or magic bullets; they are fraught with the potential for misuse, misunderstanding, and in some cases, harm. They're not for everybody. In fact, Jamie Wheal, who's spoken at our conference, suggested an interesting template: if you take a graph of 100% of the demographic, perhaps 10% of those people should never take psychedelics for a variety of reasons like mental health fragility. Another 10% might be dedicated, serious psychonauts. In the middle are 80% who might benefit from taking psychedelics just three or four times in their lives for significant occasions. One way to think about psychedelics is using the medical metaphor: when the patient is in an advanced state of illness, strong medicines are required. We're in a dire condition on the planet, and as Chris Bache has made clear, we're heading into a death-rebirth cycle, likely to become increasingly more difficult on the material level over the next decades. These times require tools that can shock the monkey, so to speak, wake us up, and do a lot of healing work. Psychedelics can open us up into understandings about who we are and the nature of things. They have interwoven capabilities: as truth serums, they show us our blocks and obstacles, and as agents of awakening, they can open us up to what Chögyam Trungpa called unconditioned reality. **Host: ** Thank you, Stephen. Before we get into any conversation, I'll pass it to Belinda. From her perspective and worldview, what do you feel is the role of psychedelics for our planet in transition? **Belinda Eriacho: ** Thank you, Mark. Before I get started, I want to do a land acknowledgment for the people of the Phoenix area, the Pima, the O'odham, and others. I'm here as an invited guest in these unceded territories and share a common history. Regarding the role of psychedelics, I view them more as sacred medicines. The language we use is important—when we refer to these as drugs, we overlook the relationship between us and the plant kingdom. I believe psychedelics help us awaken to ourselves. We've grown intellectually, but spiritually we are now unfolding. We're used to being in a material world from a Western perspective, and we've forgotten how to be with ourselves. Psychedelics allow us to heal within and resonate that healing out into our families and communities. In my book, I refer to prophecies of the eagle and condor—the people of the mind coming together with the people of the heart. Psychedelics facilitate this deeper healing evolution. **Host: ** Well, thank you so much for sharing that. I wanted to let people know that Belinda's talk from our Spirit Plant Medicine Conference 2022 is available on our YouTube channel. It's titled "Turning of the Soil" and highly recommended. Moving forward, we'll go to Mr. Chris Bache. Chris, again, the question is: In your view, what do you feel is the role of psychedelics for our planet in transition? **Chris Bache: ** First, Marc, I want to affirm everything that Steven and Belinda have said. One of the advantages of going last is I get to play off what's already been said, and I certainly agree. We are living in a different time in history; we're experiencing a collective migration and integration at a deep level. One way I understand this is through our collective past lives, all of these karmic imprints pressing up inside us, seeking resolution. Psychedelics can accelerate and clarify this internal purification process. Alongside other spiritual practices, they help keep the psyche open and clear. This process reconnects us with our deeper history, the planet, and the intelligence orchestrating reality. Psychedelics assist not just in a personal or cultural renaissance, but in a deeper psycho-spiritual renaissance, reconnecting us with a core intelligence manifesting life and history over billions of years. We stand to learn from this deeper understanding. **Host: ** That's fantastic. As we go through the transition we're facing, Belinda, you mentioned something profound about the language. People often refer to psychedelics as drugs, and I think it's crucial to acknowledge them as plants with significant properties. Would anyone like to respond? **Belinda Eriacho: ** I think it's important to recognize the relationship between us and the plants. In my culture, we may refer to Ayahuasca as Grandmother Ayahuasca, as these are ancient teachers. The same goes for the mushroom kingdom. Understanding this relationship is valuable, especially with the field expanding. **Host: ** Absolutely, and I love that term "inner standing." It's different from an intellectual understanding. Stephen, what do you think is the biggest part of the transition we're facing? **Stephen Gray: ** Well, we've reached a nexus where stability becomes less viable, and changes occur quickly. As this happens, it's likely to affect psychology and mentality, causing more anxiety. We need messages that keep people hopeful. Dwayne Elgin, in his work, suggests a mature planetary civilization is possible if enough people awaken and contribute. I've sensed that life on this planet offers an incredible opportunity to wake up and appreciate being interwoven. We need actionable information and messages of collective awakening to sustain what is otherwise an unsustainable spiritual disconnection. **Host: ** I completely understand and agree with what you're saying, as we indeed need these tools more than ever. Belinda, I'm curious about your perspective on what transition we're facing globally. **Belinda Eriacho: ** Thank you so much for that question. I was rereading Chris's chapter and reflecting on some things Steven mentioned. I look at things differently because I think what's happening to us, and to many indigenous cultures around the globe, are cycles we're going through. Our elders have told us this. Things evolve, and that's how I view it. Challenges can turn into gifts in the end, and it's up to us, as a human species, to think not just with our minds, but with our hearts. There's been too much thinking up here, and that's why we're in this situation now. We need to start moving into the mind of the heart. In my book, I share a story of an elder who told us the longest journey we'll ever travel is between our mind and our heart, though it's only 18 inches. I am reminded of many stories my grandparents and great-grandparents shared through our oral traditions about how things evolve. The way that we perceive things is what we create. I see that the children being born now are very wise souls. Chris, I think, refers to them as the "diamond." These children have an innate knowing to carry on teachings, cultures, and traditions we've forgotten because we've focused too much on materialism. I'm optimistic this is an evolution and shift humanity is undergoing. There will be those who falter, but Chris's chapter suggests psychedelics, and sacred plant medicines, open us to different timelines than our physical one. We all interpret this in our own way. I've seen the future and the healing instruments shared by our star relatives. In my culture, we say we are star beings, remembering these things. I've also seen ancient ruins and dwellings in my journeys, allowing time travel that connects us with deceased relatives and heals those relationships, aiding our evolution. I think this relates to what Chris discusses about the evolution of karma. My prayer is that as we see the unfolding world events, we ask ourselves, "What part do I own?" There's a tendency to see it as someone else's problem, but if we truly believe we're interrelated, we need to own it. That's where real action happens. Thank you for that question. **Marc Caron: ** Absolutely my pleasure. I love what you said, and I've heard that the longest journey is from our head to our heart. I repeat it because it's important for everyone to consider if they're living from their head or heart. Another quote I have is, "When you're in your head, you're dead; when you're in your heart, you're smart." When you drop into your heart, answers flow. Thank you. **Belinda Eriacho: ** I might borrow that, Marc. **Stephen Gray: ** Yeah, lots of trading going on here. There you go. **Marc Caron: ** This is one of the ways psychedelics are helping change the world, right? We learn, support, and inspire each other to share what we're doing, all based on psychedelics. Chris, what is the transition you see that we are facing as a society today? **Chris Bache: ** Well, I have limited visionary, shamanic experience of the future. For specifics, I reference scientists and ecologists. I'm glad Steven mentioned Dwayne Elgin's work; he's tracked scientific literature, showing we're entering a period of enormous suffering. It's hard to overestimate the suffering coming in the decades ahead due to climate destabilization and more pandemics. Realistically, we're looking at potential deaths in huge numbers if our planet's carrying capacity nears limits. Yet, this unspeakable agony might give us incentive to insist on changes we currently lack the political and social will for. My visionary experience suggests this global crisis is a birth process—horrendously painful, but not an apocalypse destroying everything. It's more like a Near-Death Experience, where coming close to death breaks through into different orders of consciousness. This isn't something humans are in control of; nature is driving this crisis. The intelligence behind nature is orchestrating this, and the best we can do is respond and cooperate to facilitate a transition designed by nature. From a reincarnational perspective, the beings entering this crisis aren't 100-year-old beings but ancient souls with much history. Collectively, we've been growing, but our collective maturation is egoic, rooted in individual consciousness. The world collapsing around us was built by ego, which is beautiful but fundamentally cut off from life's deeper fabric and interconnectedness. The limitations of this view are leading to global catastrophe. We can't survive with the consciousness we've had up to now. Either we grow up or die, making this death process a powerful evolutionary accelerator. Growing up means shifting from an egoic to a soul perspective. It's time all our former lives' work comes together as our psyches unify. When this reaches critical mass, a new culture with a higher consciousness core will emerge. It will be transparent to each other and the Divine at a deep level. This transition isn't for a few; the entire species is being taken through it. How or when, I don't know, but my visions say we make this transition, entering a spiritually awakened form of humanity. Once this transition takes place, we'll look back and say it was worth it to give birth to something so beautiful. **Stephen Gray: ** Mark, can I add a little to that? **Marc Caron: ** Absolutely, Steven. **Stephen Gray: ** Chris, that was incredible, mind-blowing. I just want to add one of my favorite sayings: necessity is the mother of invention. I'm sure humanity's intelligence capabilities are limitless. The optimistic side of this tremendous difficulty is that our deeper capabilities will start to emerge, tempered by increasing intelligence and the need for plausible, actionable visions. This helps avoid despair and hopelessness as conditions deteriorate. Our creativity is enormous and will be required more as the system becomes less plausible, allowing new visions to come in. As long as the truth is understood, it will be believed. This birth-death-rebirth process is essential for hope. **Marc Caron: ** Thanks for that, Steven. We're nearing time and want to be mindful, as people may prefer shorter episodes. But I like giving people something tangible or a call to action. If there were one thing someone could do to help this transition for humanity, what would it be? Let's all share one suggestion. **Marc Caron: ** I really like that courage to push through that, Chris. It's so spot on, as so many people stand on the sidelines, never playing the game. They're just watching it, right? And I think it's really important. If there's one thing I wanted to add in terms of a call to action from my perspective, it's a conversation I had with Donnie Blakey. I don't know if you knew Donnie before he passed, but he was just a brilliant guy. He said something about having others' best interests at heart, not just your own. Respect, appreciate, and understand the other person's world, because so many people are going through trials and tribulations in life right now, and what we need is more understanding, compassion, non-judgment. When we step back into a position of love, acceptance, and appreciation of where we are all at on our journey, it can really make a difference. I know there are people who don't hear kind words often, and we have the ability to impact people with our words and our actions. **Belinda Eriacho: ** And I think Marc, you meant understanding, not understanding. **Marc Caron: ** Yes, thank you, Belinda. That's a good one. I'm going to have to get used to using that one because it's super powerful. Well, I want to thank all three of you for being part of our conversation today. It's always an honor. I learn so much and get inspired as well, and I know Steven's book is out and available. We're having a book launch here at St James Hall in Vancouver. Maybe, Steven, you can talk a little about that. We're pretty excited. **Stephen Gray: ** Sure. So, anyone who can walk, drive, bicycle, train, boat, or fly to Vancouver, we'd love to have you with us on the evening of April 7, which happens to be Good Friday—a small 'g' Good Friday. We've been talking about the book launch—it almost sounds a little academic or dry—but really, we're painting it as an empowering celebration. We bring people together. Dennis McKenna has volunteered to say a few words. I've been trying to talk Belinda into coming up, but it's a long way, and she's got other things to do. Dennis is our more local person who has consented. We're going to go directly into one of our cannabis-friendly ceremonies. You’re not required to imbibe any cannabis, and the ceremony itself will be powerful and effective as a meditation ceremony, whether you partake or not. Then our wonderful world musician Chene Edgar and his talented percussionist Curtis Andrews will do an hour or so of dance music. Cannabis has an important role to play and, when understood properly, it can be considered the sacrament of peace. It allows people to have visions and deepen their experience in a way that's functional for a large gathering. So we strongly encourage people to join us. Marc, you want to talk about how they can get details? **Marc Caron: ** I just want to add that Shine and Curtis are incredible. I'll get you some music for it, but it was incredible. You can go to spiritplantmedicine.com/events where you can register your tickets and find all sorts of information, and there are a couple of videos and music you can sample. Right now, until March 17, we're offering a 30% discount for early bird tickets. We look forward to a great evening of community connection, ceremony, some medicine for those interested, and some epic music and dance. Is there anything you'd like to add before we wrap up, Chris or Belinda? **Belinda Eriacho: ** Thank you. This conversation has been really beautiful. Thank you. **Chris Bache: ** Likewise. Thank you, and Steven, thank you for your vision to bring together all the voices in your book, and everything you and Marc do to facilitate community around the awakening of our time. Thank you very much. **Stephen Gray: ** Well, and I would like to thank Marc for being so supportive of all this, and Belinda and Chris for being generous with your time. The things you've said today have just really touched me. They've been brilliant. So, thanks a lot for that. **Marc Caron: ** Thank you for your kind words, everyone. Steven, sharing this message is about transforming our lives. The medicine brought me to this, and I'm here to help these great visionary and indigenous voices speak out. This is a powerful vehicle for change in the world, and I'm honored to support that. I'm going to play a little video here as we sign off, giving a taste of the event and music. Here we go. Thanks again, everyone. **Stephen Gray: ** Please do not underestimate how deep we can go individually and collectively with this. I say that from experience. **Marc Caron: ** Thank you all for joining us. That's just a teaser, but there's a 10-minute version on the website you can enjoy. Thanks again, everyone. Until next time. **Belinda Eriacho: ** Great day, everyone. Bye. Thank you again.