---
title: Transformative Journey into the Cosmic Mind through Psychedelics with Chris Bache
slug: 2021-11-16-transformative-journey-into-the-cosmic-mind-through-psychedelics-with
date: 2021-11-16
type: interview
channel: Magical Egypt
language: en
license: CC0-1.0
identifiers:
  wikidata_person: Q112496741
  openalex_person: A5045900737
people:
-
  name: Christopher M. Bache
  wikidata: Q112496741
  openalex: A5045900737
provenance:
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diarist_sha1: bf76c1d228c3a0e531c6b7ab7aad9fa26263daa8

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**Vanese McNeill: ** Hello, everybody. This is Vanese McNeill from Magical Egypt, live. And today I have a very special guest with me. Chris is one of my favorite people in the entire world. I think that he has some of the most important knowledge to share with us, as well as wisdom. I'm also now declaring that he's a prophet as well. So welcome, Chris.

**Chris Bache: ** Happiness. I don't know about the prophet part, but okay.

**Vanese McNeill: ** Well, sweetie, I have to say things have got interesting since we've talked last, right?

**Chris Bache: ** Yeah, yeah, the turbulence of this century is certainly increasing, isn't it?

**Vanese McNeill: ** It is indeed, my dear. It is indeed, but it is necessary, if I understand you correctly.

**Chris Bache: ** Well, you know, as I've written about in my book *LSD and the Mind of the Universe*, there's a chapter on the birth of the future human, where I summarize all the visions that I was given through many years of doing the deep psychedelic work that I did. And I don't know whether it is necessary, but the vision simply showed me that humanity was coming into this period of profound spiritual awakening, a major spiritual turning point, a tipping point, a bifurcation point that would really change human history. But then it also showed me that going into this period, we were going to be going through a period of tremendous suffering, a falling apart, an unraveling of civilization as we've known it. But coming through this, we would be changed profoundly. We would tap into levels of our core and actualize potentials that have been realized only by relatively few in history, but now must be realized by the entire population, a shift in the collective psyche, not simply our personal psyche. Now, whether this suffering is inevitable or meant to be or something, I don't know. I only report the visions that it's going to be there, but it's not going to be terminal. It's not going to be extinction. It's actually labor, and labor results in a birth, and a new birth is coming for the human family.

**Vanese McNeill: ** Mmm, and labor, while it's not fun, is necessary for this birth. And I also believe that holding our hands through this process, and that's why I'm talking to you today—I can see I'm breaking up. Am I breaking up? My dear, can you hear me?

**Chris Bache: ** My end? Am I into—I hear you now.

**Vanese McNeill: ** Okay, great. So to the end of holding our hands through this process, I would love for you to share with us all today a little bit about the course that you have coming up. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to share the screen. All right, okay, okay, so tell us a little bit about this wonderful—

**Chris Bache: ** Well, you're breaking up a little bit, but I'm going to assume that I can just go ahead and talk now. You know, I spent, after doing this deep LSD journey for 20 years, I spent another 20 years thinking about my experiences, digesting them, processing them, and eventually writing down the story of this journey in my book, *LSD and the Mind of the Universe*, or as I prefer to call it, *Diamonds from Heaven*. And now that this book has been out about a year and a half, I'm now beginning to have been invited to roll out this course with the Shift Network, where we spend seven weeks on the material covered in the book. Everybody who signs up for the course will receive a free e-copy of the book so that they can read the chapters as we go through them, week by week through the course. It's basically simply, I'm inviting people to join me in this journey through our conversations, through my talks, through the Q&A, through some visualization exercises, inviting people to come with me on this long journey spiraling deeper and deeper into the universe. Now, I don't think my experiences are special or unique in this way. Many of us have deep psychedelic experiences. I've tried to put a lot of energy into clarifying the concepts involved, and now these experiences that the course is built around are not primarily personal. When I wrote the book, I dropped out a lot of my personal experiences. I tried to focus on the experiences that were universal, that were really addressing the human family as a whole, or the deep structure of the universe as a whole, not my own personal little garden of it. So in this discussion, we go in layer by layer, stage by stage, following the rhythm of the journey itself, the cycles of death and rebirth, a death at one level of reality followed by a birth in another level of reality, acclimating to this new level of reality, learning the rules there, receiving teachings there, another round of death and rebirth a couple of years later, entering a new level of reality, the same thing repeating itself, learning what's happening there, learning what's going on. And my hope is that by taking this journey with me, it will generate a lot of value in our conversation, in our discussion, in the clarification we can bring to really thorny issues about why life is the way it is, what the purpose and goal of our existence is. And I know it sounds grandiose to sort of bring those categories in, but I think if we—my basic understanding of psychedelics is that it allows us to enter into deeper communion with the intelligence of the universe, and that when we do that, the universe will speak to us, it will teach us, it will take us in. It will give us a sense of the larger landscape. And so I don't think that anything I'm sharing is in any way unique. I think it shows up in the work of other psychedelicists, psychonauts. It shows up in Stan Grof's work. It's just laid out in the very careful manner, and it allows us to discuss some deep topics that you don't find discussed very much. So that's my hope for the course, that's the agenda.

**Vanese McNeill: ** I think it sounds amazing, and I am very blessed to have kind of a cheat sheet here. But before we actually go into that, I think your point is very important. I think that for those who have not read Chris's books or at least have not seen a video, Chris's journey took him through a personal journey, expanded into masculinity, or the male journey, expanded into a human journey, and the expansion just kept going on. And so for most of us, we—

**Chris Bache: ** You're breaking up, back up and start again. For most of us—

**Vanese McNeill: ** Oh, for most of us, we barely get out of our personal journey. I am so sorry that this is so unstable, sweetie. Why don't you give us a taste, because you're not breaking up. Give us a little sneak peek.

**Chris Bache: ** Well, we're going to start with the first module. There's seven modules. The first module is going to be on methodology. I'm going to lay out the method, answer people's questions, address their misgivings about psychedelics, explain what psychedelics do and don't do, and specifically address the particular protocol I used because it was an extreme protocol, a protocol that I don't recommend that others adopt today. I would be gentler if I were doing it again, but it's an extreme protocol, and we need to really address the method. Then we move into what happened when you follow this method. The second module is going to be on crossing the boundary of birth and death, letting go of our egoic identity, time-space identity, a process of purification which culminates in ego death or the destruction of consciousness that holds our experience inside time and space. And when I say destruction, I don't mean that we're going to permanently damage the ego, but basically, we have to allow the ego to fall aside if our consciousness is going to enter into dimensions of the cosmos which are larger than time and space and are larger than our historical experience of time and space. So we talk about ego death in this context, and then in that same module, I'll be talking about the Ocean of Suffering work, because I found that in my experiences, at least working with very high doses of LSD, after I went through ego death, I began to get drawn into another round of purification of dying. And it was not personal, it was collective. It opened up into thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of human beings and thousands of years of time. It became a fundamental riddle for me. It took me years to figure out what was happening, and the conclusion I eventually came to is that this purification process was not aimed at my personal transformation, but rather the universe was using my sessions to bring about a healing of some aspect of the collective psyche, some way of letting the wounds of history—all the wars and all the terrible things we've done to each other and we've experienced together, droughts and famines—that these wounds still live within the collective psyche, and somehow, by opening up to these living memories in my sessions, these painful memories, were being lifted from the collective psyche. So we'll be talking about that, looking at the material, looking at the concepts involved. So that takes us up to module two. In module three, we then follow the process into a deeper level of reality, into archetypal reality, into what I've differentiated my experiences there into two levels, which you might call the Jungian level and the Platonic level. The lower subtle level is the kind of quasi-Jungian level where I had experiences of the human family as a unified single being, similar to Jung's concept of the collective unconscious, that all of our minds were fractal components in a single mind of the human species. Even our bodies were cells within the body of the human species. How I handled my diseases had an impact on how the human family was learning and handling its diseases; how I handled my pain, psychological pain, was related to how the human species was being able to handle its pain. And I say quasi-Jungian because I didn't engage any of the archetypes that Jung talks about, wise old man, wise old woman. But it was this experience of, over and over again, focusing on the one human family. Then at a higher level, moving into what I would call the quasi-Platonic level, engaging archetypes that were so far removed from time and space, so far beyond any conventional categories, that I literally could not wrap my mind around them. I could not see them as they were in and of themselves, but I knew I was engaging vast cosmic forces that were responsible for creating the conditions inside time and space, even time and space itself. I call this a quasi-Platonic level because Plato envisioned the archetypes as eternal ideas in the mind of an unchanging God. That's not how I experienced these beings. I experienced them as vast, huge, living, dynamic beings that lived in a different order of time and a different order of space than we do inside time and space. So after spending two years or so exploring this reality, I went through yet another death and rebirth, and we go into the fourth module, where I think I've got the modules listed right here, oneness, the blessings of oneness, of moving into causal reality, beyond archetypal reality, and in this level of reality, the world lives and breathes this one. As Plotinus says, the world breathes this one. All the components of the world are there, but the fundamental experience is experiencing the world as a unified reality, all of its life forms, cells within this unified reality, all the galaxies, cells within this unified reality, experiencing emptiness of self, what the Buddhists call Śūnyatā, to experience being alive in a world, but absolutely no self in me, no separate self, no separate self in any part of reality, experiencing the primal void, experiencing an ocean of cosmic love pouring into me, just multiple manifestations of oneness, permutations of oneness, going still deeper, another round of death and rebirth entering into the Diamond Luminosity material. The Diamond Luminosity is what I use as a term to refer to a state of consciousness that I entered into in the last five years of my work, extremely clear. The most striking characteristic is, first, it's just pure light, all light, realm of pure light and clear, clear, beyond imagination, just clear, clear, phenomenally clear. Where the joy came, not from anything that happened in this state or from anything I experienced in this state, but the very state itself, the clarity of this state, the absolute freedom, the sheer bliss of the freedom in this condition. I think this is what, as a professor of religious studies, the closest thing I've been able to find to this condition is what Buddhism calls Dharmakāya. In Buddhism, there are three kayas: Dharmakāya, Sambhogakāya, Nirmanakāya, three different dimensions of reality. Dharmakāya is the deepest; it's called the clear light of absolute reality. It is the light out of which the Big Bang emerges. So in the last five years of my journey, 26 sessions, I entered this reality four times. When I touched it the first time, it was so powerful, and it filled me with so much joy and ecstasy that I completely lost interest in any of the earlier levels of reality that I had explored. I lost interest in personal and collective and archetypal, even the bliss of causal level reality. This was different. This was a higher order. It took me about a year of very intense work, lots of purification before I was able to go back into this deeper state of reality, and I went back into it over four years, only four times. The next module has to do with the birth of the future human, which we mentioned before that it is a chapter where I gather together years of visionary experiences that I was given about where humanity is in its evolution about the turning point we have come to. My sense is that we can no longer afford to live on this planet as a species of egos that emphasize our separate, private existence, where some can lose and some can win. We need to grow up. We need to grow up into our next evolutionary expression.

**Chris Bache: ** Over and over again, I was shown these visions that this is what's happening. Nature is taking us through this. We are going through a tremendous pressure cooker. We're going through a transformation that will result in the birth, not simply of a higher civilization or a more ecologically in tune economy, but literally this. We are going through a series of crises that are going to shift the architecture of the collective psyche, so that all human beings born after we go through this process will be born in the context and be operating in the context of a new collective psyche, of a different collective psyche, a more evolved collective psyche for our species, the birth of the future human, which I also conceptualize as the birth of the Diamond Soul. I think reincarnation has been taking us toward this point for thousands and thousands of years. Gestation is long. Birth labor is quick. The gestation which has been developing within us has been developing through death and rebirth, reincarnation, dying and being reborn, dying and being reborn, incremental gains, incremental gains as we grow. But there comes a time when the soul, which holds all of our experiences from all of our lives, which is our natural state of consciousness when we die, and the ego, which is the small consciousness we're born into when we incarnate, back and forth between ego and soul, ego and soul, there comes a point where sooner or later, the soul, so the consciousness, which holds all our of our memories, fuses and integrates into one and becomes conscious inside time and space, not outside time and space in the pure, beautiful, pure paradise or in the garden or in the heavenly realms, but awakens inside time and space. And this is what I call the birth of the Diamond Soul. When this happened to me in my sessions, all my former lives came together, they fused, and I was catapulted far beyond my ordinary capacities, and I think this is simply what's happening to the entire human species. I was given the gift of getting a taste of what's in the evolutionary works for all of us. We are coming into a hard labor. We're coming into a time of unraveling. We're coming into a very, very difficult time. But my experiences in my sessions are that we come through this, humans do not go extinct, but we give birth to a divine child. We give birth to the future human, to the birth of the Diamond Soul in history. The last module in the course is on coming off the mountain. It's about integration. It's about how do you integrate such extreme experiences? Now, as long as we're working about in a therapeutic model, then we have therapeutic models for how to integrate the various content that emerges from our unconscious when we're working at the level of the personal psyche. If we go deeper and begin to experience life after death and begin to experience the connective tissue, the intelligence of the connective tissue of life, we have spiritual models for integrating and absorbing these experiences, but when we go very, very deep into the fabric of existence, when we go repeatedly outside of space and time, when we go deep into the archetypal fabric, deep into the light which is the light that underpins all of reality, how are those experiences being integrated by us? Then, what does integration even mean in this context? How can a finite being integrate infinite experiences or experiences of infinity? How does a time-bound being integrate experiences of eternity or Deep Time? So that's what we're going to be looking at in the last module. We'll be looking at the challenges of integrating, not just integrating individual sessions, but integrating an entire journey that explores deep, non-ordinary states of consciousness year after year after year. Personally, I don't think we have begun to map what these deep experiences are doing to us. I don't think we've really begun to understand fully the opportunities that they're giving us and also the challenges, the hardships they bring to us in order to, you know, come back into time and space after such glorious adventures outside of time and space. So that's kind of the trajectory of the course, in a nutshell.

**Vanese McNeill: ** So, Chris, I'm going to leave my microphone off, I mean my camera off, as it might help my interactivity, right? So, sweetie, do you have a sense of once we integrate the soul—

**Chris Bache: ** Say again, you're breaking up—once we integrate the soul function?

**Vanese McNeill: ** How do we act? What do we look like? Do you have a sense of that?

**Chris Bache: ** Well, I think we act like old ones. I think what we're doing is growing up. We see the prototypes in Jesus and Muhammad and the Buddha in some of the great saints of history, whose natural horizons are so large, whose compassion is so deep, whose ability to download information from cosmic mind is so augmented. And I think it will look something like that. It will look like an older human being, a being who is steeped in time, who carries the knowledge of thousands of incarnations, just as our ego carries the knowledge of one incarnation. I don't think it'll be a science fiction action, exotic-looking human being growing another set of fingers or getting a bigger skull. I think we are—it will bring about deep metabolic changes in our body, but it will register first as a profound series of psychological changes, changes in our heart. We will enter into what I sometimes call the one heart, the one heart of the human family, the one heart of the planet. We will enter into deeper communion with the mind of creation, the mind that's been generating this extraordinary galaxy, this planet, all the life on this planet will be able to enter into communion and download information from this intelligence more easily than we can do it today. I think this new human being will actually live in the body differently and experience their senses differently. One of the last gifts I was given on my journey, actually was the very last gift given on my last psychedelic journey, was what I call diamond vision. My vision suddenly, I was in a condition five hours into the session, late in the wind-down stage of the session, where my vision was 100 times more acute than it normally is, where I could see levels, gradients of color, edges of detail, much, much more finely than I was ever able to see before. And after about 10 minutes, it disappeared. It stopped. And it was at that point that I began to realize I had been given the gift of seeing through the eyes of the future human. We have a tendency to think of our senses as kind of mechanical, neurologically generated, but I don't think that's really the case. Our system certainly uses our physiology, but as our consciousness gets stronger and bigger and older, it brings out deeper and more refined senses, a deeper form of vision, a deeper form of hearing, a deeper form of tasting and sensing our physical body. So I think that the future human is not simply a human with a healed heart and an open heart, and not simply a human being with an open and deeper mental capacity, but as somebody who lives in a deeper sensory experience, a more satisfying sensory experience in their body with all the hills or a long, dark history healed in the body, emotionally, psychologically, and physically. Yeah, so that's what I think the future human will be like. It'll be like a grown-up version of ourselves, the soul.

**Vanese McNeill: ** That's beautiful, Chris, that actually makes a lot of sense to me. You, as you pointed out, this sci-fi vision of humans, and when you say also the collective soul, my mind jumps to the Borg or something like that on Star Trek, which does not appear appealing to me at all. This, yeah, this vision is very, very beautiful. I was reading a book last night that was talking about the relationship between sleeping and death. And what occurred to me is that there is a Mandelbrot type set of magnification between the state of dreaming and dying and then the series of dyings that you went through on this journey. And just like dreaming is a state very much akin to death, and being alive in the daytime is very much akin to being alive in a life, you just progressed up into the bigger Mandelbrot sections of that process, right? Dying every time, on a different layer and a higher register, if you will. And as a result of that, being able to kind of access these larger perspectives. And I think that the fact that you did that for us is invaluable, because in a normal waking state with everything that is going on in the world, it's very, very hard to be in touch with your intuition at all, let alone having a broader state of consciousness. And that's why I think it's very important for people. And yes, look, it is your journey and filtered through your senses and your experiences, but fundamentally, there is very, very precious information that you have died for and brought back for us. And if you are going to share one of those for the people today who are kind of, you know, living, like out of all the different levels that you went through, what piece of information would be most helpful for us today with what seems to be the bifurcation of people into red people and blue people and vax people and unvax people and all of these kinds of things, yeah, what can help us most today?

**Chris Bache: ** Yeah, good question. I don't know whether I can think of one thing that would help us most today, but let me just ramble a little bit and see if we can move towards something like that. First, let me mention that I think this is a personal journey, and I own it. I accept the personal nature of the journey. But I think it's what happens in serious psychedelic work is something like the following: my experience is that consciousness is an infinite ocean, that there's an infinite ocean of consciousness, and my mind acts as a seed catalyst that catalyzes a certain set of experiences out of the infinite potential of this larger consciousness. So in a sense, my experiences in the psychedelic state are always participatory. They're always interactive. My being evokes certain sets of experiences. It doesn't mean that I'm simply reading my own mind in these experiences, but my being catalyzes a certain set of experiences from the infinite mind. But as I internalize those experiences, as I let them change me, as I let them purify me, as I let them kill me—allow myself to die—as I allow myself to be purified at deeper and deeper levels, what happens is the seed catalyst of my mind is changed, so that when I go into psychedelic space, the next time, my mind is a little different than it was before, and it catalyzes a still deeper response from the cosmic, the infinite mind of the universe. And if you keep this up many, many years, this very much matches the experience that the more you allow yourself to be purified, the more you allow yourself to let go of your old ways of thinking and old ways of feeling and just go with it. Just allow yourself to be solved, to be dissolved into the winds of the world that the universe can show you more because you are capable of receiving more because you've emptied out your being and made yourself into a receptacle. I think the infinite consciousness is truly that—an infinite consciousness. So even though there were many homecomings, and even though there were many, many deeply soul-satisfying experiences, I couldn't imagine being more satisfied. I also had experiences which showed me that it is truly an infinite world that I was entering and I would never be able to get to the end of it. I could not get to the end of this reality. It was just too vast, and I was too small, even using this very accelerated process. So from this journey, I bring back experiences that were given to me by this larger intelligence, which over the years, it became clear I was being given these visions in trust, these experiences in trust. They weren't being given to me privately, but they were being given to me so that there would come a time when I could do my job as a teacher, just as I'm an academic, you know, I'm a philosopher of religion, to share them with other people, so that these visions, to the extent that they truly reflect universal truths, people would recognize those universal truths and they would find ways of integrating them into their own life. So excuse me again. Didn't turn off my ping on my phone.

**Vanese McNeill: ** That's okay. Neither did I, darling.

**Chris Bache: ** So, in terms of what would be useful to people, a number of things come forward. One of them is to trust the intelligence of the universe, to trust the wisdom that is alive and operating in the universe. We are taught that the universe came about by chance, that it evolves by random mutation, screened by brutal survival of the fittest. That's not an accurate reflection of my psychedelic experience at all. My experience is that we are everywhere, surrounded by orders and orders of magnitudes of intelligence; when you go deeper into the universe, you're entering into more and more awareness, more consciousness, more intelligence than we generally experience inside time and space.

But to trust the universe—to trust the universe that has created the conditions of reincarnation, where we choose our lives, we choose the conditions in which we enter into, even the difficult ones—we choose these things. To understand reincarnation not simply as a personal soul story, but a collective soul story, a human family soul story that incarnates intelligently generation after generation as we grow as a human family. To feel that intelligence, to recognize the intelligence of how it works, to recognize the intelligence of how the human family is now being catalyzed—all of us together—to bring forward a deeper form of functioning, a deeper way of being human on this planet.

If there were maybe only one thing, if I were to point to one thing that I wish I could give people, it would be to lose their fear of death. I wish I could reach into my heart and give you this absolute freedom from any fear of death. Because if you fear death, you've got your cosmology all upside down. If you're afraid of dying, then you don't understand that the hard work is done inside time and space. The really hard work is done here. When we die, it's graduation. When we die, it's homecoming. When we die, it's recess. We get this tremendous joy.

We have so many Hollywood narratives about the spooky things that happen to us when we die, and they're just nonsense. They're just ridiculous. When you experience death yourself, when you are near a person who studies near-death episode research, and you talk to people who have truly died and have come back to life, or who have been nearly dead and come back to tell about it, or when you go to the shamanic traditions where death and rebirth is an understanding, a deep understanding of what happens in one's psychedelic sessions when you've gone through death many times, you lose all fear of dying because you know from your own personal experience that death is simply a transition. It's a transition to a happier place, a finer place, a place you will eventually choose to return into time-space again because of the great value of time and space. But death is absolutely nothing to fear.

So, a combination of the wisdom of the universe, the genius of the universe, the way the cycle of life takes us in and out of death many, many times, and in and out of rebirth many, many times, and that there is purpose in this, there is design in this. The universe is creating a species, the likes of which we haven't even begun to imagine. It has been billions of years in the making, and it will continue to be made for billions of years more. Every time we think we can do it better, if we were God, we would have designed the world a little better. We would have eliminated this or eliminated that. I think, well, that means that you know where we're going, and we don't. I think we just get glimpses. Even in our deep visionary states, we get glimpses of what is being built. And I think we're going to see in this century some early signs of what is being built in history, in the future human.

**Vanese McNeill: ** I can't agree with you more. I remember when I was a student and came up against the great saints or the great sages who would choose death rather than compromising their idea or their belief. They would literally go and be burned at the stake because the importance of that idea was so strong, and they have remained through history as people whose messages still resound right in our day-to-day lives.

And what's been very evident to me is that with this virus that has occurred, the populace on mass remains very much in a state of fear of death. I wonder how an individual that hasn't been on your journey is able to arrive at that state without undergoing what you've taken or what you've gone through. How do I get where you are without having 72 doses of LSD?

Audience: ** A number of ways, I think. First of all, read books. There are wonderful, very well-researched studies of people who have died or who have nearly died. When people begin to read the near-death episode literature, it changes. I've taught this for decades to my students at the university. When you read the near-death episode literature, it completely changes how you experience or how you anticipate death.

Another body of literature is the reincarnation literature. The evidence, which I find is absolutely, empirically, overwhelmingly good evidence for reincarnation. Once again, if we reincarnate, if there is a mind that moves through one incarnation after another in some way, then it basically takes away the fear of dying. You understand that death is not the end. It's simply the end of one half of a cycle. The cycle goes from birth to birth, or death to death, let's say birth to birth. Halfway through that cycle, there is death, but there is activity on the other side after death, which brings us back into birth again. We can study that literature, the past life therapy literature, when people actively encounter their former lives in order to heal those former lives, the near-death episode literature, the reincarnation literature, it just, when you put together all these bodies of information intellectually, that should assuage our fear of dying.

And then I think, to spend time, either in books or tapes or in person with people who have gone through whatever spiritual practice they've used that has truly dissolved their fear of dying, to spend time with them. It's not magical, it's not super-duper supernatural. It's simply a kind of opening to a larger horizon where certain things don't frighten you anymore, and it's something which can be learned, it can be transmitted from one person to another, so that it becomes kind of a shared community value. So I certainly don't think you need to do what I've done to awaken this sense of fearlessness confronting life.

**Vanese McNeill: ** That actually makes a lot of sense, sweetie. Yes, I agree with you. I mean, I am rather au fait with the literature, and it does. I mean, there is overwhelming evidence out there. You have a book, Dolores Cannon's done so much work on it. There are a lot of really good researchers that have reported on this. And then the Druze, which is a culture in the Middle East where the children that have been, unfortunately, they've passed away as a result of some traumatic experience, come back very quickly, and can literally go and identify their ex-wives or their children. I mean, that's uncanny, yeah.

Audience: ** Ian Stevenson's work, I think, is a game changer. He really is the Charles Darwin of reincarnation. He's given us sufficient hunt cases. Children have not only continuity of memory, they can recognize people from the circumstances of the previous life. They know intimate details of the previous personality's life and the people they lived with and were associated with. They sometimes, and this is a really fascinating thing, they sometimes carry in their body scars that are related to the death wounds of the previous personality in their previous life, so that not only mind transfers from life to life, but in some cases, even a sort of cellular memory transfers from life to life.

**Vanese McNeill: ** I, as a very young girl, had a friend, my father's friend, who had a constant pain in his right shoulder, and he went to a past life regressionist who told him that he had had a sword stabbed directly down his body, and through the process of acknowledging that, he felt a sharp pain, the things start filling up from the bottom and was healed completely as a result of processing that wound, which is very much like the work that you're doing, or the work that you have done for us. It is akin to the personal work that we do on ourselves. If we identify a trauma that's happened in our life, we look at it, we heal it. And so you did that for us on many, many levels of human and cosmic consciousness, right? So again, there's kind of a Mandelbrot of healing that proceeds up and down this chain.

**Chris Bache: ** You know, it may sound exotic describing it after the fact, but when you're in it, it feels like the most natural thing in the world. And again, I don't think you have to be a saint to do these things. Any mother or father worth the salt, when they see not only their child, but other children suffering, if there's anything they can do to alleviate that suffering, they would naturally do it because the path of a parent's compassion is deepened by their children to all the children of the world. So if you're given an opportunity in the physical world or in psychedelic space, if you're given an opportunity to somehow engage suffering and to bring, by bringing it into awareness, to heal that suffering. It's the most natural thing in the world to do that.

I don't know whether I think that I did this work not because I had to. I did this work because it was chosen by my soul before I was born. I think all of us who chose to enter time and space during this very intense period, in a way, I think, took on more karma than was maybe common in centuries past. Just to be here, to live in these very challenging times, is to take on heavy responsibilities for the entire human family. We are doing this in the physical world, just as we do it in our psychedelic sessions. And I think that we chose it. We knew what we were getting into, and we are now here living it out, bringing it into fruition inside physical world.

**Vanese McNeill: ** I have always been a compassionate person, Chris. I've been accused of being pathologically forgiving, but I find that in this moment, my compassion is increasing at an exponential rate. I feel I can see in myself I am being forced to grow. I'm being pulled to grow. And I see that happening to a lot of people around us. So I concur that we can all do this work on many different levels, and it's just as important to heal your child as it is to do the large-scale work that you did. I don't know. I mean, it's just, again, I keep coming back to the point that I really would encourage everybody to either read your book or to come to this seven-week course. I feel that it is God's work that you're sharing with us, my dear, and that the people that come to this class are going to have an expanded understanding of the workings of the universe and how to be kind of a soldier in the transformation towards this diamond human being that we all want to get to. And the sooner, the better, right? The less chaos, the better. And so that's why I wanted to take this time and to kind of share this with the people at fans of MAGICAL EGYPT because I think, you know, you're greasing the wheels, my dear, you're making it just that little bit easier.

**Chris Bache: ** It is, in some ways, like being a soldier, but it is a very different kind of soldier, isn't it? Because here, one conquers by surrendering. You confront evil or pain, and you don't fight it. You let it in. You surrender to it. It becomes part of your world, and then it moves through you, and it resolves itself. So it's a very peculiar way. It's like a woman in labor doesn't fight her pain. She cooperates with it. She works with it. She surrenders to it. She lets the pain carry her through the birth process. It's like that in a psychedelic session.

And you know, this was a hard book for me to write. It was hard for me. It took me years to get my head around sharing these sessions because, you know, they're the deepest experiences I've ever had in my life. They're my experiences of God. At first, I wanted to publish this book posthumously, just wait till I die and leave it behind, but the mother told me, "No, you can't do that, there's not enough time. We're going into choppy water. All hands on deck, please. Thank you very much." All of us need to show up and put our gifts forward so that together we can support each other, we can nourish each other, and bring this critical period of history to a good outcome. Bring us through it faster. We'll go through it faster if we go through it smart, if we go through it with compassion. We can reduce the suffering. It's like the global climate crisis, the conferences which have just taken place, the G20. If we are smart and take more aggressive steps, we can minimize, we can reduce the pain and suffering. If we don't act with intelligence and courage, we're going to increase the suffering later.

So we all have options as we come into this period of history. We all have options. We all have choices. We're all part of the human family dealing with this. And the more we know, the more we understand, the more we trust, the better our choices can be, the speedier outcome, the better world we can leave for our grandchildren.

**Vanese McNeill: ** Well, we're blessed to have you, Chris, and I'm so glad you didn't wait because then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to talk to you and I think hearing this from your own voice is so powerful. So I want to apologize first of all that my connection has been so bad. Next, I want to point people in the chat, there is a link to Chris's course that's coming up again. I highly suggest that you go. If you can't go, please share it, just so that we can have as many hands on deck as Chris said. And I want to thank you, my dear, so much for your time today and holding my breath, you know, surrendering.

**Chris Bache: ** Doing what I can. Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation and for all the conversations that you host, which are part of the facilitation of this larger awakening process for humanity. If anyone on your cast wants to go to the website of the course, they can find it at explorecosmicmind.com. You'll see the course, you'll see the descriptions. You'll see there's all sorts of free bonuses you get if you sign up for the course, you get lots of nice free bonuses. Everybody gets a free ebook. Some of Stan Grof's courses are going to be given to you. Some unpublished articles that I've written will be given to you, a chapter of the audiobook. So there are lots of freebies that will come with the course, and I hope it attracts a wonderful group of people. I'm sure it will, people who, like yourself, are curious, wondering, and who are workers who really want to bring about a better world.

**Vanese McNeill: ** I'm sure it will be the best group of people, darling. I'm sure we'll come away with wonderful new friends. So thank you. Just again, it was explore.com explorecosmicmind.com. All right, my loves. I'll pop that in the chat, and I'm going to email this to all the MAGICAL EGYPT people, so I'll make sure to put that in as well. So thank you, Chris. You have a wonderful evening, and it starts on the 17th. Is that correct? So coming up? Well, actually...

Audience: ** The course itself starts on November 30. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, there's an invitational event, a one-hour invitational event in which Steve Dean and I talk about the course and what it's going to be. That's going to be rebroadcast on the 16th here. I don't know whether that's the 17th where you are, but basically the course will not start until November 30. Okay, every Tuesday for three weeks, we take two weeks off for Christmas holidays, and then four weeks through January.

**Vanese McNeill: ** Fabulous, sweetie. All right. Well, we will see you there. Hopefully, we'll see lots of MAGICAL EGYPT people. Thank you for listening as well, MAGICAL EGYPT people. And Chris, you have a wonderful evening. Thank you again. Bless you, my dear.

**Chris Bache: ** Thank you. Thank you very much, Vanese. Bye, bye.