Discover the Mind of the Universe — LSD, Psychedelic Research, and Consciousness

Host: Passion harvest. Hello, passionate listeners and watchers, welcome to Passion Harvest. I am Luis, your host, international passion ambassador. I am really, really excited about my guest today. I've just read his amazing book, and if you don't know who he is, Chris Bache set out to explore his mind and the mind of the universe on what would become a life-changing journey with the help of the psychedelic drug, LSD. Chris's 73 high-dose LSD sessions over the course of 20 years drew him into a deeper communion with cosmic consciousness, pushing the boundaries of theory and practice. Chris's psychedelic experiences took him beyond self-transformation into collective transformation, beyond the present into the future, revealing spirit and matter in perfect balance. Christopher M. Bache, PhD, is a professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University, where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies, Emeritus Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and on the Advisory Council of Grof Legacy Training. Chris's passion has been the study of philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. An award-winning teacher and international speaker, Chris has written four books: "Lifecycles: Reincarnation and the Web of Life," "Dark Night, Early Dawn," "The Living Classroom," and "LSD and the Mind of the Universe," the story of his 20-year journey with LSD. This is his story, and this is his passion. Professor Christopher M. Bache, welcome to Passion Harvest. Thank you so much for being here.

Chris Bache: My pleasure, Luisa. It's nice to be with you.

Host: It's so nice to be with you. I've just read your book. It's fabulous. I'd like to dive right in for those that haven't read it, and the link, all the links will be in the show notes. What is the book about, and what story are you telling? That's two questions, I'm sorry, but…

Chris Bache: Well, I was trained as a philosopher of religion, and right as I was beginning my career at Youngstown State University, I met the work of Stanislav Grof, the foremost authority on integrating psychedelics into psychotherapy. I read his book, "Realms of the Human Unconscious," which had just been published. This was a long time ago, in 1978, and I saw that this work was extraordinarily important. We're undergoing a renaissance of psychedelic research now, but Stan's work comes from the early generation. He was in the earliest tier of this research. So I read his work, and I saw how important this was, not just to psychology but to philosophy. So I just had to find out for myself what using psychedelics—using LSD in a very careful and specific way, in very controlled circumstances, using a therapeutic protocol pioneered by the early researchers, Stan particularly—could teach me about myself, about my mind, and ultimately, the mind of the universe. So I began what became a 20-year journey. I chose, perhaps foolishly, to work with very high doses of LSD. In these controlled circumstances, I did 73 high-dose sessions systematically over 20 years, recording the results. After I had finished—in 1979 I did this work when I was 30 to 50—I took another 20 years to think about and digest and process these experiences. Eventually, 20 years later, in 1999, I published "LSD and the Mind of the Universe," which is the complete story from beginning to end of where this journey took me into the universe.

Host: I said before the interview, I'm almost jealous, in a way, of what you experienced, but you did experience such deep emotional and physical suffering, but such deep, profound insight of universal truths. Do you mind just explaining to the audience, and you do detail this in your book, what a session looks like?

Chris Bache: A session always began in the early morning. I was always isolated, either in my home or in my wife's office. I always had a sitter who carefully took care of me and monitored me. My sitter was my first wife, Carla, who is a clinical psychologist. I'm always lying down on a mattress on the floor surrounded by pillows. My eyes are covered with eye shades. I'm listening with earphones to very carefully selected music to pace the unfolding of the session, totally protected from outside interferences, and focused deeply within. They last all day, basically from early morning about eight hours into the late afternoon or early evening.

Host: And I asked you before, the physical toll on the body, what was that like, aside from the emotional aspects and the spiritual, the physical?

Chris Bache: Well, physically, I'm fine. It's actually a very beneficial process because in this work, when the body begins—basically LSD is an amplifier of consciousness. It hyper-stimulates, hyper-amplifies consciousness. Our conventional understanding of psychedelics is quite wrong. We're coming into a new era of psychedelic research, and the public is being educated to a deeper understanding of what these substances do. But they basically hyper-amplify consciousness. And if you use this amplified state carefully and conscientiously, your body begins a detoxification process. It begins to pull out of your system all the things you'd rather not face, all the things you're scared of, all the things you're afraid of. Classically, you begin to confront these things clearly and conscientiously, and you can begin to lift these things out of your system. You go through, eventually, a death and rebirth process. Your total identity that you had developed over your lifetime on Earth is shattered, and you are spun into deeper transpersonal or spiritual states of consciousness. If you continue this work, this cycle of purification continues, and the difficult material you have to process comes from beyond the personal psyche—it comes from deeper levels of consciousness, the collective levels of consciousness, the species mind, archetypal levels of consciousness.

I know this is a radical story. I understand how far beyond most people's experience this is and how off the wall it is, but basically, you go through deep purification processes, which are well known in the spiritual, mystical traditions. You're clearing a lot of material not only from your own body-mind history but also from the history of your species. And it involves a lot of physical detoxification as well, a lot of purification of your body. The net result, even though you go through some very difficult purification, suffering, multiple deaths, and rebirths, the cumulative effect is very clarifying on your body and on your emotions. It's very uplifting, because when you go through these intense purifications, you are spun into very deep, positive, ecstatic states of consciousness, which deepen as the process progresses. So my body is in good shape. I think my emotions are in good shape. It's been an adventuresome journey. I just wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Host: It's incredible. And what's interesting, you talk about the death and the rebirth, you also talk about the death and the rebirth of the ego, or the removal of the ego. And even more interesting, during this process, you had to surrender. But in this process of growth and evolution, you also affected the collective consciousness, which is a very interesting way of thinking about it.

Chris Bache: And surprising to me. I wasn't expecting this at all. I was thinking when I got into this work that it was about personal healing or personal transformation, personal enlightenment. But what I found after going through two years of this work and going into the second two years, I started processing vast tracts of pain, being drawn into fields of suffering that were like Dante's Inferno—thousands of beings and years of human suffering flowing through me. At first, I thought this was a deeper form of ego death. But this kept on for so many years, and it was so collective, that I eventually was forced to consider an alternative understanding, which has become my normative understanding—that in these intense states of consciousness, something in the universe uses them to heal scars collected in the human collective unconscious, which history has deposited there. Instead of healing my personal psyche or even former life trauma, I spent years healing various trauma lodged in the collective unconscious. This is what I mean by personal transformation opening into collective transformation.

Now, I think that all of us are always hard-wired into the collective psyche and that all of us, when undergoing spiritual processes, are simultaneously processing collective issues—that our healing impacts the collective psyche. It's just that when you work with psychedelics, this becomes intensified. So yeah, I spent two years doing this collective healing and then was spun into another level of consciousness where the rules of the game changed again.

Host: I can't wait to hear about that in a minute, but it's so interesting because we always think of ourselves with our personal transformation and growth, wanting to reach a certain level. But we don't necessarily realize that we're working on a collective level. So that would also mean the collective consciousness is affecting us—what the collective consciousness is experiencing. Obviously, we're living in a crazy time in the world right now, but we can't distance ourselves from the impacts of that as much as we'd like to try.

Chris Bache: Yeah, well, you know, we're organically embedded in the collective psyche, just like we're physically embedded in the ecology of the earth. You can't separate us from the ecology that surrounds us psychologically. We are embedded in the collective psyche. My experience has spent a lot of time exploring the intimacy with which we are embedded in it and the ways in which each of our lives are fractal cells within the larger life of the species, which is part of a fractal cell within the life of the universe itself and the solar system and the galaxy. So we are deeply involved in our collective process. Eventually, I found that there's no separation between personal and collective transformation—that all of us are players on a historical stage. For any issue anyone deals with, there is a dynamic in society facing that same issue, and we're interconnected.

I know that conventional psychology says we're all standalone, working on personal issues. But that's simply not my experience. It's not what's shown in these deep states of consciousness. There, it's like we're networked. We have separate private functions but are also networked into vast collective processes, engaging with them all the time.

Host: Yes, it's a careful balance between being autonomous and all one. Is it your belief that we are, in fact, all one? Someone described it as the Creator having multiple personalities, which are the humans. I'm just wondering, what's your point of view?

Chris Bache: I think that core insight—found in some religious traditions—that Atman is Brahman, the essence of the individual is the essence of the totality, is fundamentally true. At the core of our person is consciousness, an awakeness, and the nature of that energy is the nature of the Divine itself. We are sparks of the divine fire, and oneness is among the most consistent spiritual experiences that emerge across mystical traditions. Experiencing oneness is transformative. Out of oneness grows compassion, concern for fairness and justice, and also the techniques for deepening our immersion in this unity. To be mystically or spiritually realized means becoming transparent to the fundamental oneness of life. They live, consciously, both as individuals and, to varying degrees, as part of the fundamental oneness of the universe.

Host: It's really interesting. We often get caught up in our personal stories. Are our thoughts our own?

Chris Bache: They both are and aren't. It's interesting because in logic, it feels like an either/or, but it's more complex. The thoughts I'm using now to speak to you are my own. But if we step back into deeper, relaxed states, meditative states, watching where our thoughts originate, we see influences arising beyond personal lineage—collective, spiritual, historical, cosmic. So what comes into my awareness has pedigree, extending beyond the individual. Artists often feel this—something larger creates through them. Many don't sign their art because it wasn't theirs alone. That blending of deeper creativity and personal agency is universal and becomes transparent in psychedelic states.

Host: Gosh, is the thought my own? If we have time, I'd love you to share some pivotal moments from your book. It's fascinating how you transcend time and space, future, past, present. It's all potentially happening now. Can you explain that more? I think it's fascinating.

Chris Bache: Yes, that was another surprise. Physicists tell us linear time is not the only way time moves. Some particles move backward, and time behaves differently in certain conditions. In super string theory, there are non-linear dimensions of the universe. In deep, non-ordinary states, I—and others—experience different time modalities. Early on, over seven sessions, every profound purification I underwent led me to deep time—not eternity, which is non-time, but a deep time where I experienced my entire life as a simultaneous now. It's like a tree with recent moments as leaves. I experienced life waiting for me, already lived, knowing myself deeply. In later sessions, I entered deep time frequently, experiencing humanity's evolutionary trajectory, not as a future timeline but simultaneous to now and already complete.

As you approach the edges of space-time, linear time dissolves, seen differently. Beyond it, in extreme conditions, you may experience time altogether gone, beyond space-time completely. I've had accelerated experiences where centuries pass in minutes. I try to unpack this in the book as carefully as I can.

Host: I think it's fascinating. Is everything happening now?

Chris Bache: Perhaps, from a perspective. But personally, that doesn't seem useful. I’ve tried thinking in those terms, but the mind needs the structure of cause and effect—even if that varies in places. It hasn't completely dissolved in non-ordinary states for me. I've had radical eclipses of time but am not convinced everything is simultaneously now. I think it's a more complex pattern, but I don't know. In the end, I just don't know.

Host: That was a very honest answer. Thank you. You talk about seeing the whole trajectory of your life. Is everything pre-planned?

Chris Bache: No, it's not pre-planned. There are probabilities. In reincarnation, which, based on empirical evidence, I believe in, you eventually don't reincarnate randomly but choose carefully, the place, circumstances, and timing. You see a trajectory waiting for you, presenting challenges and opportunities—not deterministic but open-ended, offering variable outcomes for learning. There is chance in the universe. Karma in Eastern traditions conditions choice but doesn't eliminate it. Freedom in choice increases with attention, but less so without attention.

Host: Great answer. I'm going to re-listen to that. Has your life played out how you saw it during your LSD experiences?

Chris Bache: It has. I want to be careful; I didn’t see all the details but experienced my life’s totality. Some specific events I wish I had foresight on but didn’t remember all details. It gave me a deep understanding of my purpose and what I'm about. Everyone carries this knowledge, intuitively guiding us. I'm now familiar with the person I encountered 35 years ago.

Host: Interesting, but you're a very different person than you were 40 years ago.

Chris Bache: Yes, I am. I've paid my dues, gone to work every day, raised three children, dealt with life's uncertainties that we all must handle. I hope I’ve kept my wits about me, learning as I've gone along.

Host: I have to ask you, you spoke about the evolution of the species and saw elements of that in your experiences. Could you share that with the audience?

Chris Bache: That's a big topic. Okay, I'm happy to touch on it. Again, it was one of the deep surprises of my journey because I'd never imagined something like this would become part of it. I was thinking in terms of the conventional descriptions of enlightenment you find in spiritual or mystical traditions. But systematically, over years of work, I began to be given a series of visionary experiences, and these weren't just visual. In these states of consciousness, you learn by becoming what it is you're experiencing. You know it from the inside. So when I say I had a systematic initiation into various visions of what's happening with humanity, it's like I dilated, entered into absorption with the species mind in a state of Deep Time. Consistently, there was a message poured into me about where we were, and it completely surprised me because I hadn't spent much time thinking about humanity in this global sense. The message was that humanity is coming to a turning point, a decisive time in our history, a bifurcation point in our evolutionary development. We're coming into a true before-and-after event, a change in our history that will alter us at the very fundamental core of our existence. This is not simply a change in our economy, politics, or cultural values but a change in the architecture of the collective psyche. After this period, all human beings will be functioning within a different archetypal structure. It marks a time of profound spiritual awakening and extraordinary change, a pivot point in spiritual development. Throughout these experiences, I was taken deep into the future and given short glimpses of what I came to call the future human, the individual we are becoming in history. The specific form of these things was not clear until several years later, in 1995, when I had an experience I call the Great Awakening. It was a difficult experience, but after extensive purification, I was propelled into deep time and dissolved into the human species, experiencing the death and rebirth of humanity—not as an individual but as the species. Humanity experienced a global systems crisis, a time of profound loss and turmoil, a feeling of loss of control, a time that felt like an extinction event. But when it seemed at its worst, the pressure lifted, and we survived. Despite the paring down, when we began to rebuild, we had changed deeply in our core. The crisis had revealed principles, values, and truths that altered us irrevocably. It's a true encounter with the truth of our oneness, as mystics have spoken of for thousands of years—a transformation into recognizing we are one with each other and life. That experience creates a civilization where no one is left out, marking a spiritual turning point. This was not shown to me in its entirety, but it seemed related to an ecological crisis. I wasn't aware of the ecological literature at the time, but years later, the parallel was unmistakable. My final sessions offered a deep encounter with humanity's evolutionary future, a future being birthed through turmoil, reflecting the painful but deeply significant labor of creation. We're birthing a truly enlightened species, a humanity of Christ, Buddhas—the prophets—a deeply awakened humanity. That's the before-and-after turning point I saw.

Chris Bache: It is such a beautiful, magnificent creature that we are creating in history, with an extraordinarily open heart of pure compassion and an open mind in communion with the intelligence of the universe. Having a deep vision of what we are working towards in the long term is vital; otherwise, we might drown in coming sorrows. Labor is hard, but we need to see beyond it to understand that we are creating a future being, a future human.

Luisa: Wow. We unfortunately, myself included, as a collective, always grow from suffering. Sadly, our greatest growth comes from it. You mentioned the pared-down human—will there be fewer souls incarnating in physical form?

Chris Bache: I draw that not primarily from my experiences, though it resonates with them. It's from the ecological literature today—what is the carrying capacity of the planet? Estimates suggest the post-damage Earth might support 2 billion people, whereas we are approaching 8-9 billion. Intellectually, we have ample evidence of impending challenges, some of which will take lives. The essential question is: How soon will we make crucial choices to live in harmony with the planet and each other? The sooner we start, the more damage we can mitigate. We've locked in profound disruption, but we can still correct our trajectory or worsen it.

Luisa: You didn't see specific time frames, but was there a trajectory of time for the sorrowful period in our species' history?

Chris Bache: I think the 21st century marks the beginning of what I would call the dark night of our collective soul. The dark night is a technical term used by mystics for intense purification before mystical awakening. It's a time of letting go of the past to move into a new future, and I believe the 21st century is that time. It won't be quick and might take generations, but many things are accelerating. How we handle the upcoming pressures will partly dictate the speed. The Trump presidency, for example, was four years of climate change denial, slowing us down. We're entering the early convulsions; Covid-19 is an overture of deeper disruptions. From Covid, we're starting to learn behaviors that might help us face future crises better.

Luisa: This brings us briefly to fear, which I feel is so present in the collective consciousness. What are your thoughts on fear and moving beyond a fear-based state?

Chris Bache: We have reasons to be afraid; we've neglected many critical responsibilities. But my deeper experiences show that the universe is profoundly wise, intelligent, and compassionate, though these aspects are not apparent on the surface. To see the universe's compassion, one must look deeply. Evil isn't external to the divine but part of how the divine manifests. The universe sometimes acts in ways that challenge us profoundly. In my sessions, I was drawn into realities so expansive I lacked words to describe them, experiencing an incredibly wise and intelligent universe. We are being called to a higher order of existence; though the path is demanding, it's extraordinarily exciting. A meaningful life isn't about comfort but significant challenges that draw something deep out of us. Intelligence engagement is more powerful than fear, and over this journey, the fear of death fell away from me. I say this humbly—I'm not afraid because I've seen where we go when we die. Any shaman or deep spiritual practitioner may have similar experiences. I know I'll enter into greater intelligence and profound love at death, so fear doesn't hold me.

Luisa: People often ask me what happens when we die, or express fear. It's comforting to hear there's nothing to fear.

Chris Bache: We're in a time when we know so much about what happens after death. I've taught Transpersonal Studies, exploring reincarnation research showing consciousness continues. Near-death experiences, Michael Newton's work—these expand our understanding of continuity beyond death. Psychedelic experiences show that death doesn't create a new being; rather, it's about discovering something we already are. We already possess spiritual reality and access to it, making it difficult to die fundamentally. With this understanding, reincarnation becomes an opportunity to grow and evolve, free of the burden of too little time.

Luisa: This is a large topic, but I must ask: In your experiences, what's the purpose of the life-death-rebirth cycle, and is there an endpoint?

Chris Bache: There isn't an endpoint we can recognize, just as we can't define the universe's endpoint. Reincarnation frees us from the burden of too little time, offering open-ended growth. The traditional view of reincarnation emerges from spiritual development until divine nature awareness, resulting in escape. But this older model now seems limited. My sessions showed me all my former lives coming together, fusing into an explosion of light—a higher order of existence, what I call the birth of the Diamond Soul. When the Diamond Soul awakens, one knows themselves as a soul incarnate, significantly altering identity and societal dynamics. This awakening happening collectively signifies a profound shift. It's not simply about correcting the past but continuing positively, building on successes. We are truly learning how to love deeply and think richly, building on a positive legacy.

Luisa: Why did you stop your LSD sessions?

Chris Bache: It became too difficult to return. I spent my last years in communion with what I call Diamond Luminosity, repeatedly dissolved into the clear light of absolute reality—Dharmakāya. These were temporary states and, although deeply satisfying, leaving them became a heartache. It was essential to integrate and digest these experiences into the rest of my life. I made a pact with the universe not to return to such depths until I could remain there indefinitely. Therefore, I've spent my time reflecting and sharing insights, hoping they resonate beyond those using psychedelics and offer a broader cosmological understanding.

Luisa: Any final thoughts for the Passion Harvest audience?

Chris Bache: I advise not to emulate my high-dose LSD approach, as it was taxing. Those interested in psychedelics should work with lower doses and gentler substances. My journey taught valuable lessons, but some paths might come with immense costs. I want to witness the profound embedded wisdom within us and our universe, reassuring us of our intimate connection to cosmic intelligence.

Luisa: Thank you so much, Professor Bache. It's been amazing to talk with you and hear your powerful message.

Chris Bache: Thank you, Luisa, for a wonderful conversation.

Luisa: Thank you for joining Passion Harvest. If you liked this episode, please subscribe for weekly inspirational interviews.